would you deposit and play at this site?

[support]

awe,

that's kind of a given. but the whole idea behind the HH t&c is so that
users dont have to worry about how to get multiple accounts. the HH
operator is not allowed to reveal any ownership details to anybody.
so if zip bought 10 accounts nobody would know except him.

however, over time, if zippy camped 9 of the accounts every day
all day long a the same table then i think others would get wise after
a while dont you think; take the other extreme where somebody was
using 2 accounts at the same table for 10k hands; if all of the opponents
have those 10k hh's then maybe they can do their own affinity analysis.

in the end, the policing is left to the player and not the operator.

[zippy]

in the end, the policing is left to the player and not the operator.

The problem is that the single player cannot beat a table where the other 7-8-9 are colluding against him. You want to change names every sit-down (or I could rotate accounts into the game)..therefore...the single player couldn't police it.

today he played vs. 9 guys and tomorrow their names are all gone.

zip

[zippy]

LOL!
ok so let me get this right.
you want to use the team edition to play 9 chairs
against a lone bot to demonstrate the results so
i will take the team edition off the market.

YES.....
Because if you play this game to its natural conclusion (HH sites - allow any and all collusion and multiple accounts), nobody could play and survive at a single table with only one account.

Sure, there may be battles as certain players try to gain full control of tables (say a team of 4 guys vs. 6 guys)...but at the end of the day, you will have tables parked with 7-8-9 players waiting to destroy anyone who goes to the table.

I know you believe that the "lone player" may have a shot....but they wont. My purposed experiment was to demonstrate to you how this would kill the game.

HH w/collusion cannot work (unless you are the guy with 7-9 at the table )

zip

zip,

your 9 vs 1 chair is nothing more than the first chapter in your book that
talks about the pros and cons of this situation. change the 9:1 scenario to
an sng and see what you get.

"Honest Holdem Seating Strategy"
by Zippy

the fact that there are issues with the extreme 9:1 case is not an
indictment against the larger multi-hand game and the 9:1 case does not,
would not, kill the overall HH game.

you need to consider an entire industry that does not yet exist (but will)
that tracks which accounts are likely to be owned by the same person.
such a site might even sell it's hunter analysis to players as a business.

once your 9 accounts become known by the playing community then it
may be that you'd not be able to get anybody to sit down in your deadmans
chair. so you decide to go to 8 chairs and then 7 ... and so on until there
are enough vacant chairs to satisfy some opponent. it's the ultimate game
of supply and demand and it's the ultimate game of "fish trap".

i'm making the case that you have a divine right to lay your 9:1 fish trap if
that's what you really want and your opponents have a divine right to not
sit in the deadmans seat in the first place because they know your accounts.

dont forget that the server side hand histories are available to one and all.

i'm ready to wager 1GG on a 10 chair sng with you.
you get 9 chairs; i get 1; you have to keep me out of the money
(i.e. the top 3 spots)
just say when.

or if you really believe what you're saying,
put up 9 grams of gold for your 9 chairs
i'll put up 1 for my single and we'll play for the standard
50% 30% 20% structure.

Game on Ray,

But here is what I want. No e-gold trading hands (or we can send me a PM if you just have to piss your $$ away )...you know my feelings about gambling in Georgia for $$$.

I will make a gentlemen's wager with you on PBWC attendance...need to figure out what is a "value" for you to put up (still like removing the teaming feature).

I also want to play multiple times with you.
I also want this to be a big-stack sit-in-go.

Bascially, I want it set-up as such that the optimal strategy wins (meaning I dont want 100/200 blinds with 1500 to start and have you spike runner runner and claim that 9/1 is beatable).

I purpose:

Code: Select all

- Limit
- 2500 chips
- Blinds 5/10 increasing every 15 minutes

As mentioned earlier, I will need a week to write the "Kill Ray" bot (hell...I'll even post it for you - as it will be 95% smacking you around and 5% cards) and get a 24 hour teaming version tested

Next weekend is bad for you...how about the week of December 18th?

zip

[support]

LOL!
ok so let me get this right.
you want to use the team edition to play 9 chairs
against a lone bot to demonstrate the results so
i will take the team edition off the market.

YES.....
Because if you play this game to its natural conclusion (HH sites - allow any and all collusion and multiple accounts), nobody could play and survive at a single table with only one account.

Sure, there may be battles as certain players try to gain full control of tables (say a team of 4 guys vs. 6 guys)...but at the end of the day, you will have tables parked with 7-8-9 players waiting to destroy anyone who goes to the table.

I know you believe that the "lone player" may have a shot....but they wont. My purposed experiment was to demonstrate to you how this would kill the game.

HH w/collusion cannot work (unless you are the guy with 7-9 at the table )

zip

zip,

your 9 vs 1 chair is nothing more than the first chapter in your book that
talks about the pros and cons of this situation. change the 9:1 scenario to
an sng and see what you get.

"Honest Holdem Seating Strategy"
by Zippy

the fact that there are issues with the extreme 9:1 case is not an
indictment against the larger multi-hand game and the 9:1 case does not,
would not, kill the overall HH game.

you need to consider an entire industry that does not yet exist (but will)
that tracks which accounts are likely to be owned by the same person.
such a site might even sell it's hunter analysis to players as a business.

once your 9 accounts become known by the playing community then it
may be that you'd not be able to get anybody to sit down in your deadmans
chair. so you decide to go to 8 chairs and then 7 ... and so on until there
are enough vacant chairs to satisfy some opponent. it's the ultimate game
of supply and demand and it's the ultimate game of "fish trap".

i'm making the case that you have a divine right to lay your 9:1 fish trap if
that's what you really want and your opponents have a divine right to not
sit in the deadmans seat in the first place because they know your accounts.

dont forget that the server side hand histories are available to one and all.

i'm ready to wager 1GG on a 10 chair sng with you.
you get 9 chairs; i get 1; you have to keep me out of the money
(i.e. the top 3 spots)
just say when.

or if you really believe what you're saying,
put up 9 grams of gold for your 9 chairs
i'll put up 1 for my single and we'll play for the standard
50% 30% 20% structure.

Game on Ray,

But here is what I want. No e-gold trading hands (or we can send me a PM if you just have to piss your $$ away )...you know my feelings about gambling in Georgia for $$$.

I will make a gentlemen's wager with you on PBWC attendance...need to figure out what is a "value" for you to put up (still like removing the teaming feature).

I also want to play multiple times with you.
I also want this to be a big-stack sit-in-go.

Bascially, I want it set-up as such that the optimal strategy wins (meaning I dont want 100/200 blinds with 1500 to start and have you spike runner runner and claim that 9/1 is beatable).

I purpose:

Code: Select all

- Limit
- 2500 chips
- Blinds 5/10 increasing every 15 minutes

As mentioned earlier, I will need a week to write the "Kill Ray" bot (hell...I'll even post it for you - as it will be 95% smacking you around and 5% cards) and get a 24 hour teaming version tested

Next weekend is bad for you...how about the week of December 18th?

zip

zip,

this sounds like an ideal pbwc demo match.
on the boat, we'd be free to trade gold or cash or chips.
you've got about 9 months to build the 9 chair
super-colluder-pro-cheatin'-ass-kill-ray bot.

[support]

in the end, the policing is left to the player and not the operator.

The problem is that the single player cannot beat a table where the other 7-8-9 are colluding against him. You want to change names every sit-down (or I could rotate accounts into the game)..therefore...the single player couldn't police it.

today he played vs. 9 guys and tomorrow their names are all gone.

zip

the honest holdem agreement does not care how many accounts you
have as long as you're willing to pay for each name. you want a thousand
accounts - ok fine - 1 kilo of gold please.

you're certainly trying to make the case that it might not be that attractive
to play solo in all cases; but that does not mean the operator is obligated
to prevent that from happening; assume that the people that would play
at an HH site are keenly aware of the risks.

the facts are that this type of jungle has never been explored.

i do intend to explore it. and i believe that many internet players will get
involved if we can show them how to do it with min risk and max fun.

[support]

zip,

see the pbwc 1GG thread for an update.

in hindsight i see now that i was mixing contexts.

in the context of a real money ppro honest holdem
type of site, i'd limit all of the banking to e-gold.

but in the context of pokerbot.com name registration
there is no reason to limit anything to e-gold. i got
stuck there for a few days thinking about the correct
structure for an offshore ppro site and so that's why
my comments were so e-gold focused.

i'll have a name registration order form up shortly
and the cost per name will be $20 usd. this will work
very much like the wh email order system.

[triplef]

"You may at any time buy any number of real money
server side hh's for any hand where you did not
participate at the cost of 1c per hh. "



hmm i smell 1c /h or 1$ for 100 h
100, for 10000, hands..

hope its full tables.. then oculd be worth populating lol
actually not.. at 1/100th of acent im in..


WHATS avg cost per 1000 on real cash ?

[efu]

no i wont play at such a site as teaming is cheating it destroys poker and takes away the edge from god players like me thats not fair cheers efu

[athenscott]

I would like to play online by subscribing this site as I love to play. But the problem with your one condition and that's you are not accepting credit card..